Windows 95
OK, so I've started looking for releases of Windows 95 and noticed something weird.
Nobody seems to have a rip of the original, full retail, release of Windows 95!
There's "English with Arabic Support" and "English with Vietnamese Support" but no normal English retail version. (There is the Upgrade version, however)
Additionally, to make matters worse, that OEM version (while it does appear to be version 4.00.950) is some hacked-up ISO with Internet Explorer 1 (which was ONLY part of the Plus Pack at the time)... if you let it create a bootdisk for you, one of the files has a date of 2003!
Only the OEM Service Releases are correct. This seems to apply anywhere - the files on BetaArchive are identical to what's on WinWorld.
I've come across some various OEM editions on eBay, as well as another "English with ___ support" that I haven't seen ripped.
What I'm especially after is the "setup boot disks" that came with them. I have one from 98 Second Edition and Millennium as I own a retail boxed copy of those OSes. They're similar, but not the same. 95 was something else entirely, though, because unlike 98/ME, the "oemsetup" file does not do the fdisk/format for you. I also note that the bootdisk made during setup does not include CD drivers!
I do have a CD-ROM setup disk for OSR 2.1 with USB support, but that's the only one I've been able to source. That one has a choice of four drivers (the NEC one is, in reality, OAKCDROM and works on anything) and as I mentioned, requires you to do the fdisk/format bits yourself. However, this will not work with pre-OSR2 because its "large disk support" changes the partition type to FAT32, unlike the original setup disk which would support 513-2048MB FAT16s.
So tl;dr, does anybody have any Windows 95 discs they can make ISOs of? OSR 2 and later are fine, but I'm looking for the earlier ones. I can buy them on eBay if needed, but it's a huge waste of money, especially since most don't come with the bootdisks anyway.
Also, that "OEM" 4.00.950 should be removed from the library, as it's not even correct!
Nobody seems to have a rip of the original, full retail, release of Windows 95!
There's "English with Arabic Support" and "English with Vietnamese Support" but no normal English retail version. (There is the Upgrade version, however)
Additionally, to make matters worse, that OEM version (while it does appear to be version 4.00.950) is some hacked-up ISO with Internet Explorer 1 (which was ONLY part of the Plus Pack at the time)... if you let it create a bootdisk for you, one of the files has a date of 2003!
Only the OEM Service Releases are correct. This seems to apply anywhere - the files on BetaArchive are identical to what's on WinWorld.
I've come across some various OEM editions on eBay, as well as another "English with ___ support" that I haven't seen ripped.
What I'm especially after is the "setup boot disks" that came with them. I have one from 98 Second Edition and Millennium as I own a retail boxed copy of those OSes. They're similar, but not the same. 95 was something else entirely, though, because unlike 98/ME, the "oemsetup" file does not do the fdisk/format for you. I also note that the bootdisk made during setup does not include CD drivers!
I do have a CD-ROM setup disk for OSR 2.1 with USB support, but that's the only one I've been able to source. That one has a choice of four drivers (the NEC one is, in reality, OAKCDROM and works on anything) and as I mentioned, requires you to do the fdisk/format bits yourself. However, this will not work with pre-OSR2 because its "large disk support" changes the partition type to FAT32, unlike the original setup disk which would support 513-2048MB FAT16s.
So tl;dr, does anybody have any Windows 95 discs they can make ISOs of? OSR 2 and later are fine, but I'm looking for the earlier ones. I can buy them on eBay if needed, but it's a huge waste of money, especially since most don't come with the bootdisks anyway.
Also, that "OEM" 4.00.950 should be removed from the library, as it's not even correct!
Comments
The reason for this was that performing a clean install from CD was a NIGHTMARE back then due to incompatible CD drives. Therefore, they left full installs to OEMs only, who could ensure their drivers worked with their CD ROM drives. Meanwhile existing computer users were expected to have a properly configured Windows 3.1 install with the appropriate CD drivers already pre-installed and working.
Similarly, only OEM floppy disks ever contained a CD-ROM drivers because a good chunk of the time the OAK driver would not work.
Also, OEMs were free to customize their CDs. So there are probably some different ones out there. Some had IE 1, and some did not. Not sure what the deal with that was.
EDIT: When it comes to boot diskettes, writing the startup files, copying drivers, setting up FDISK and formatting the hard drive is not that difficult. In fact, it's pretty fun.
Also, when running FDISK from OSR2 and newer, it doesn't use large-disk support by default. You have to hit "Y" and enter instead of just enter to create FAT32 partitions. Without telling FDISK yes, it creates standard FAT16 partitions
Interesting you should mention that. I found somebody selling a sealed "special edition" for $300 and was so tempted to make an offer on it, but figured I'd see what I could find in ISO form before that.
I found another one here and looking at the side of it, I do see it says DOS+Windows 2 or 3 as a requirement.
So you're saying it would be identical to "Windows 95 (Retail Upgrade) (ISO)"?
This seems to agree, taken from that EMS store that overcharges for vintage software:
Windows 95 Upgrade, 3.5": W95/ISK BBNDL 95 EN NA VUP 3H W/IES: 362-00242
Windows 95 Upgrade, CD: UPDATE WINDOWS 95 (CDROM): 050-052-950
Windows 95 for PCs without Windows, 3.5": W95/ISK BBNDL 95 EN NA 3H W/IESK: 362-00241
There's an upgrade/clean install 3.5" set, but only an upgrade CD. Interesting.
So would finding an OEM RTM disc without IE included be worth doing?
And as for the boot disk... that's not really what I meant though. Let's say you have a 2GB hard drive (I'm doing all of this in VMWare so I can make it whatever size I want)
If I boot from an OSR2 or newer boot disk (including 98/ME), and I say "yes" to enabling large disk support, it will create a 2GB FAT32 partition.
HOWEVER, if I use the boot disk from OSR1 or RTM, it will make a 2GB FAT16 partition!
I just can't seem to find a boot disk that isn't altered in any way. As in, it'll be one made in WinImage or otherwise edited before someone uploaded it (bootdisk.com is famous for this)
The only ones I've gotten myself are from "Windows 95 with USB support" which are OSR 2.1 with the USB patch, therefore they do the FAT32 thing. It also does include OAKCDROM though which is nice, it just won't work for installing pre-OSR2.
Also of interesting note, OSR2 and newer use DOS 7.1 (same as with 98/ME) while the originals used 7.0. And also "MSWIN4.1" rather than "MSWIN4.0" for the OEM ID on the floppy disks. So even trying to make an active DOS partition with those is going to lead to incompatibility issues.
You can install 95 RTM with a 95 OSR2 or 98 boot floppy, just tell FDISK to NOT enable large hard disk support. Setup will complain that it can't run SCANDISK, but if you continue, it will all work.
Ideally the ISO archives would include any associated boot floppies, but the physical media always gets separated.
Those boot disks are a bit misleading. Some are the install boot disks, others are the ones made during setup.
There are two different ones.
My retail copy of 98 Second Edition came with a "Boot Disk", which I have dubbed the "setup boot disk". I compared the one from here and it's 100% identical to mine - good! But looking at Millennium (which I also have a retail box of), that one is completely different. However, it does closely match the boot disk made during setup.
You can see in this unboxing video what I'm referring to. There's the CD and a single floppy disk that serves as the install floppy.
As a side note, I've seen random "boot disks" floating around, and it's possible Microsoft offered them separately at some point? The retail boxes didn't have them as far as I know - at least 98 SE and ME did not. I'm not 100% sure of the SKU numbers because you can't see it in the video, and my boxed copies are at my parents' house, but I can certainly check if it would help anyone. It would be nice to include the SKU numbers in a readme along with the disk images, IMO. Especially given how many various OEM spins there are on 95. 98 was thankfully a bit less annoying, and to my knowledge there is only one retail version (plus an "upgrade" retail version)
Yes, I think so.
All you have to do is sneak into Dell or HP or IBM's warehouse of old stuff.
Seriously though, at that time frame, I co-operated a retail computer storefront, plus did the computer show circuit on the weekends. We never, ever sold floppy disk installs, just the "upgrade" CD-ROM. It would be like ripping off fingernails to do a floppy install. And then to have to repeat that for hundreds of computers? I'd put a gun to my head first.
And I honestly do not ever recall seeing an actual OEM CD either - or I surely would have burned a copy.
Good luck in your search. I enjoy these kinds of quests myself.
Tried it in VMWare - created a new virtual machine, did the fdisk/format steps, then loaded setup.exe from the CD. (Using a Windows 98 boot disk, which has OAKCDROM, is a lot easier for this purpose).
All I had to do was temporarily eject the Windows 98 disk and put in a Windows 3.1 floppy disk (though the box implies you could use 2.x as well, if you have 3.5" versions of those...), it verified right away and let me do the rest of the install. No need to waste disk space with Windows 3.x first!
Also, for what it's worth, a bizarre bug I've noticed in the 95 installs - all the way from RTM up through and including OSR 2.5 - for one, if you boot it from a floppy disk (as you pretty much have to do, not even the OEM CDs are bootable like 98+ are), if you take that floppy disk out to create a recovery boot disk, it will refuse to continue the install until you insert the original disk. Not sure *why*, as it should have loaded the DOS files into RAM when you first booted from the floppy, but I digress.
Secondly, a far more annoying problem, is the fact that the initial setup does not install the CD drive like it does in 98. So it copies all of the files to your hard drive, advises you to remove the floppy disk and reboot. Once it reboots, it then detects hardware and says "insert Windows 95 CD-ROM"... but the only drives available are A and C! As a work-around I've had to copy all of the .cab files to C:/files first using a DOS boot disk with XCOPY on it, and then provide it with that path. Or a second virtual hard drive with the install files, that works too.
Either way, it's amazing how much of a hassle it was to install Windows 95... luckily I didn't get into system building until XP or I probably would have started tearing hair out.
I also have retail Boot Disk of Windows ME with 2 copies disk.
(At least Boot ID : MSWIN 4.1 / Volume Label : BOOT DISK)
Windows 95 upgrade seems to check previous Windows via Hard Disk or Floppy Disk.
(I've inserted disk 1 of Windows 3.1 on drive B:)
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8317
P.S. On MSDN subscription, no retail full CD ISO existed, but retail upgrade CD ISO only. (RTM version only)
XCOPY
If the hard disk is too small, use the floppy version or stick with DOS.
If it failed and command.com was on a floppy disk you get "Insert disk with COMMAND.COM in drive A: and press a key when ready" (or so).
Hard disk? Something like "Cannot reload COMMAND, system halted"
I certainly wouldn't want to see that error message when running from hard disk. Either the disk has failed or something malicious just went down if the Command Interpreter is corrupt or missing.
You mind making an image of that?
I've made .ima files of the bootdisks created during setup - the only odd thing about those (they do have the MSWIN OEM IDs, what you're calling Boot ID, because it doesn't start doing the IHC corruption until Windows is booted fully) is the dates. There will be two or three files that have today's date instead of the original date, one's a zero-byte identification file and then two .com files. It also puts today's date up in the bootsector where it stores a creation date. I "fixed" them up by editing the four date/time bytes in hex so they all match - here's the Windows ME boot disk after I edited it: https://www.sendspace.com/file/x3l2ap
Also note that there's no volume label on those. I believe if you already had a disk formatted, it would copy the files and keep the label - but in this case I started with a completely blank disk (1.4MB of 0x00) and let the setup program do the format work.
Right - I was able to use the RTM upgrade CD to do a clean install, I just had to switch out the boot disk for a Windows 3.1 setup disk, then switch it back.
Holy crap, do you have a collection of vintage MSDN stuff? I've got access to MSDN subscriptions through work, but Microsoft removed everything prior to Windows XP due to a lawsuit over the Java VM. Same with Office 2000 and earlier. They do have MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1/3.2 (Chinese), but no 9x, nor any of the NTs before Windows XP. Would love those for my MSDN collection...
There is a disc I ripped that I bought retail from eBay - it's got Windows 98SE, Windows ME and IE6 all on one CD. It's not a bootable disc, but it has the setup files where you can run them from a DOS floppy for 98/ME, and then upgrade to IE6 while you're at it. Pretty nifty. I can add it to the library if anyone wants.
I would have assumed it copied them to RAM during the early steps of the setup. After all, it creates a boot disk using files on the CD... and doesn't need the underlying DOS to do it!
Right, but the thing is that none of the setup boot disks have XCOPY on them. The official ones that came in the retail packages of 98/98SE and ME have fdisk, but not even format. (They have the OAKCDROM driver though). You have to run format from the CD if you're doing it manually and not using OEMSETUP. Same with the startup disks created during install, those have fdisk as well, but no format, nor xcopy.
The Windows 95 startup disks have fdisk/format but NOT a CD driver, and also don't have xcopy.
So basically I had to make my own DOS bootable disk that had OAKCDROM as well as fdisk/format and xcopy on it... there isn't a ready-made one that meets all those requirements.
It just seems strange to me, as with Windows 98 they corrected that problem and when it reboots into the "not quite full Windows but still better than DOS" mode to install your drivers, it has the CD driver loaded. It just didn't with 95... never corrected in any of the OEM service releases either, as OSR 2.5 still has that problem and it's only a year before 98!
PS off-topic, but what happened to my sig?
It works in VMs, it works with my IDE hardware... it even works with the IDE DVD-RW drive I stuck in that old computer of mine to replace the CD-ROM. I have at least one 95 boot disk that includes OAKCDROM (under the name NEC), the customized/OEM-made ones are honestly not necessary unless you're using their hardware.
And really, I just like having official stuff. Anybody can make a floppy image in WinImage, but there's a collector's market for non-modified stuff. And since floppy disks are obsolete (and tend to not work half the time anyway...), I'm totally cool with images as long as they're genuine.
If you're using WinImage to make diskettes from images, there's not much point in using images from "original" diskettes. Aside from saving any rare/oddball drivers off the disk, everything else can be recreated from a machine that has Win95. I can't argue with the fact that original diskettes are collectable, but images made from those diskettes are almost completely irrelevant. When you write an "original" image to a diskette, not only are you still not using an original diskette, you have the added disadvantage of omitting certain other tools you could otherwise have, XCOPY being the most prominent. I am currently unaware of any official boot diskette that shipped with that tool; please feel free to correct me on this if I'm wrong. Customized diskettes provide whatever tools and drivers you choose, which makes them more versatile and usable. I guess it all comes down to either paying a few bucks for an original or creating one of your own (that works just as well, if not better) for free.